Liverpool Fc @ Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings

[shyboy252001]

Morning bros!!

apparently, i think i probably have been labelled as RB's lackey too! hahaha

anyhow, to bro Omnia or other fans who think Jose will be better, are you guys sure?

on League performance:
both sign on 2004 for Chelsea and Liverpool respectively, but look at the squad inherited, and the amount of financial resources given..

JM had Terry, Gallas, Lampard, Cole, Makalele, Duff, Gudjohnsen and spent 90+ millions to buy Peter Cech, Robben, Drogba, R. Carvalho and others..

RB had Carra, Gerrard, Hamann, Baros, Riise (?), Kewell (??), Smicer (???), Dudek (????), Traore (??????) , Biscan (??????) and spent about 18 million on Alonso and Luis Garcia, (i refused to acknowledge that RB bought Cisse since the transfer was settled by GH before RB came on board)..

close fight? turn the table around and i dont know how far can Jose Mourinho can bring us, and of course, we will never know the answers.. we can only speculate..

On Champions League:
Mourinho won CL in 2004, look at his opponents to the Final.. (for ref: F.C. Porto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) besides Man Utd, who were worthy opponents?
compared that to Liverpool's opponents on the way to Final in 2005, we had Bayer Leverkusen, Juventus, Chelsea, and Milan.. So far, beside leading Porto to win in 2004, JM had yet to bring another team to Final, not with Chelsea (RB saw to that twice).. maybe this year he might.. unless Barcelona stopped him again.. while Liverpool went to final twice under RB..

and for those who think RB is a failure, look at the clubs courting him to take over, please.. Real Madrid and Juventus are not small team, why would they want to get someone who is lousy? Big Clubs want successful manager to lead the team..

hmm.. think i will surely be labelled as RB's lackey permanently after this liao.. hahaha

[rahl]

Originally Posted by hawksbay

30m pounds at wat price,we lost that vital player who was the link between the defence n attack,we miss him badly,thats one of the reasons we have struggled.i 4 one was devastated when he left.hopefully we ll get to the europa cup final to ease the pain of not finishing higher in the league.

I don't think so - Stevie's time has to come to an end at some point. We must imagine a Pool without him and build a new team with new stars. The game is not won by one person alone (or else we would have many titles already). In fact I would have looked forward to it more if we had a more decent budget to get new players. Some of the future stars are going to come out of the academy.

[shyboy252001]

Hi again,

would like to comment on RB's transfers also..

sometimes, i think people/journalists are pretty fucked up people.. how can they compared Liverpool spendings and Arsenal/Man Utd.. when RB took over, how much Liverpool's players worth?? besides Carra, Gerrard (at that time probably a 10 million player), Hamann, Cisse, Owen, who can be sold for decent price? and the talk about growing local talents.. who in the reserves can make it to the first team at that time? Richie Partridge? Traore? Mellor?

u need to buy undervalued players and try to show the world how great they can be and then u can sell them at high high price, right? case study C. Ronaldo, D. Beckham, Xavi Alonso..

with limited budget of about 25-30 millions, a good manager have to choose how to spend it wisely.. RB got to choose to spend on average ready players or expensive budding talents.. if i not mistaken, RB was considering certain Theo Walcott before, but was asked to fork out 15mil? and was looking at Kun Aguero, again was asked for 16mil+.. if u have 20-25 million budget and a not-so decent team.. will you spend the money on these kids? or would you look at a couple of 5-8 mil players to bolster the squad overall's strength?

so, of course there would be players that were bought for short term measures, and would b released soon.. but there are players bought in view for long term squad, ie. the so call spine team like Reina, Carra, Agger, Mascherano, Gerrard, Kuyt, Torres, which he assembled through these 5-6 years.. and of course he got to spend also on those kids that cost below 2mil as future talents.. like N'gog, Nemeth, Insua, Pacheco..

those who look at Liverpool's transfer income and spending are not looking at it objectively, they should only look at those picked, bought and sold by RB..
not those he inherited from GH to sell, looking at these players he chose..

i am too lazy to do the maths, but so far i think it should balanced out.. some he bought and sold at loss, Morientes, Pennant, L. Garcia, R. Keane, Dossena.. some he bought and made profit, Sissoko, Peter Crouch, Bellamy, M. Gonzales.. of course, the biggest gain are still players he kept.. Reina cost 6 million, now probably can fetch 20+million? Agger cost 6 million, now abt 10 million?, Mascherano cost about 18 million (which he was flamed and branded crazy since Mascherano practically was a benchwarmer in West Ham) now maybe 30million? Torres bought abt 26 million now probably worth 60-80 million?

on his fail signing..
let me ask, which manager didnt have fail signing? Alex Ferguson had 25 mil for Veron, 17mil Owen Hargreaves, 17mil Anderson (?), 17mil Nani (until now then bloosom), 30mil on Berbatov, 9mil on Tosic.. Jose Mourinho spent 13 million of Paulo Feirrera, 8 mil on Del Horno, 30mil on Shevchenko (he claimed not he wanted one..)

so far, besides R. Keane (which he claimed not he want to buy one also..) and Babel.. his big signing (10 mil above) have proven to be quite solid.. the rest are those bought generally for short term measures and managed to sell at little lost or made small profit.. think Bellamy, Crouch, Sissoko, Morientes, Arbeloa.. mayb Reira, Yossi.. the jury still out on Aquilani though.. but i think RB is taking his time to gel Aqulani to the team coz on occassions i find Aquilani at wrong frequency with his teammates..

lastly, it is easy for Phil Thompson or anyone else to complain that at that time GH offered C. Ronaldo but he rejected it.. but who can guarantee C. Ronaldo will b a hit?? why dont he publish 100 of his recommendations and see how many become a star?

[shyboy252001]

Originally Posted by omnia

i long since held the view that no player(s) r indispensable to the club...so long as the club gets a good deal & the player wants to leave...then so be it...what is vital is to be able to be astute & shrewd enuff to adapt to changes and fit things ard wif new fresh replacements...

anyways alonso appears to be quite inconsistent at madrid this season and he was not always that consistent at anfield either...although last season was his best...

europa final...touch and go as a madrid r a good team notwithstanding their present league position...rafa needs to be at his wily best & all the players need to be up for it for both legs regardless of nando's fitness...

totally agree on ur observation on indispensable thing.. Gerrard, if he wants to leave, should be sold.. maybe about 30-50 mil, depending on the situation then.. so were Alonso, who were outstanding on his first and final season with Liverpool, but the seasons in between was inconsistent..

Madrid is a good team.. may the best team win..

[bochapsing]

let's leave tat poor lucas alone for the time being....

it seems tat everybody got their own view and verdict on Rafa...

but let us start tis discussion.... IF Rafa decided to leave (just as many people wish), who is available (have to be realistic lar) and who do u want to take over us?

Martin O'Neil? Jose Mourihno? Guus Hiddink? Fabio Capello?

[GeMiNiZzzzZzz]

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

Gerrard, if he wants to leave, should be sold.. maybe about 30-50 mil, depending on the situation then.. so were Alonso, who were outstanding on his first and final season with Liverpool, but the seasons in between was inconsistent..

Selling SG for that price now will only go into the Yankee's bank..

Originally Posted by bochapsing

let's leave tat poor lucas alone for the time being....
it seems tat everybody got their own view and verdict on Rafa...

but let us start tis discussion.... IF Rafa decided to leave (just as many people wish), who is available (have to be realistic lar) and who do u want to take over us?

Martin O'Neil? Jose Mourihno? Guus Hiddink? Fabio Capello?

Of course, this can only be done if the owners are changed, or RB moved to another club w/o any compensation.

MON is a good choice, humble yet aggressive tacticians.

Jose...if we get a rich owners 1st

[omnia]

no doubt jose had inherited a relatively stronger squad than rafa and also had an open cheque book of sorts...but if u look at what jose achieved in his v 1st season in the EPL as compared to ranieri, grant, and scolari wif basically the same set of factors/circumstances (perhaps another apt eg. wld be Man City this season wif Hughes and now Mancini to some extent)...u maybe able to discern the x factor that jose seems to possess...the ability to transfer his will to win to his squad together wif his winning tactics being paramount at the expense of winning in style...

jose also appears to generally hv the ability to effectively change tactics quickly during a match when things do not seem to be working out for his teams...something which rafa seems to lack more often than not in the EPL(saying that i acknowledge rafa's finest hour of effectively changing tactics in perhaps the best CL final ever 05')...also if u compare say Terry, Lampard, Joe Cole, Duff's stds/quality as players pre-jose and post-jose u may realise the impact jose has had in making them much better all round players...i seem to recall that these players hv gone on record to acknowledge the same...i think even drogba said the same thing...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

anyhow, to bro Omnia or other fans who think Jose will be better, are you guys sure?

on League performance:
both sign on 2004 for Chelsea and Liverpool respectively, but look at the squad inherited, and the amount of financial resources given..

JM had Terry, Gallas, Lampard, Cole, Makalele, Duff, Gudjohnsen and spent 90+ millions to buy Peter Cech, Robben, Drogba, R. Carvalho and others..

what was so wrong wif Riise & Dudek?...Kewell was a good creative player at Leeds, just don't understand why he cld not consistently demonstrate that same high level of play in a reds shirt...oh and on the issue of Cisse, u maybe interested to know that rafa was apparently an admirer of cisse when he was playing for auxerre and scoring goals for jam...so much so that rafa was keen on signing cisse to valencia...gleaned this bit of info fm Paul Tomkins' book Golden Past, Red Future 2005...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

RB had Carra, Gerrard, Hamann, Baros, Riise (?), Kewell (??), Smicer (???), Dudek (????), Traore (??????) , Biscan (??????) and spent about 18 million on Alonso and Luis Garcia, (i refused to acknowledge that RB bought Cisse since the transfer was settled by GH before RB came on board)..

yes we can only speculate but i get the feeling that on balance jose wld probably hv done a better job when it came to the EPL...he appears to understand what is required to win in the EPL more than rafa...however on the CL front i wld say that on balance rafa may hv the slight edge over jose...

oh and let me share another bit of info which i gleaned fm Carra's biography - Carra:My Autobiography...it seems that jose is personally a reds fan...carra apparently found this out fm another reds' player(sorry i can't remember who) who shares the same agent wif jose...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

close fight? turn the table around and i dont know how far can Jose Mourinho can bring us, and of course, we will never know the answers.. we can only speculate..

yes i get the feeling that on balance rafa may hv a slight edge over jose when it comes to CL footie...but to be fair to jose i don't think u can take away the shine of porto's CL04' victory just based on the opponents they played...because these opponents probably had to beat the acknowledged bigger CL teams...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

On Champions League:
Mourinho won CL in 2004, look at his opponents to the Final.. (for ref: F.C. Porto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) besides Man Utd, who were worthy opponents?
compared that to Liverpool's opponents on the way to Final in 2005, we had Bayer Leverkusen, Juventus, Chelsea, and Milan.. So far, beside leading Porto to win in 2004, JM had yet to bring another team to Final, not with Chelsea (RB saw to that twice).. maybe this year he might.. unless Barcelona stopped him again.. while Liverpool went to final twice under RB..

actually i don't think rafa is a bad manager or a failure per se...on balance his CV wld probably place him in the top league of european club managers & deservedly so...however when it comes to the EPL i get the feeling that rafa just does not seem to get it...i think he is better suited to continental european leagues like la liga and serie a, hence i am not surprised that madrid (he was there in charge of the reserves for awhile when del bosque was manager) & juve r interested in him...i gather he once went on a successful sabbatical to juve under capello during his early yrs as a young manager...it seems he was a big fan of arrigo satchi, but by the time of his sabbatical arrigo had left juve to manage the italian national team...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

and for those who think RB is a failure, look at the clubs courting him to take over, please.. Real Madrid and Juventus are not small team, why would they want to get someone who is lousy? Big Clubs want successful manager to lead the team..

[omnia]

what do u consider a "decent budget" bearing in mind manure and chelsea's recent reality checks and arsene's conservative spending habits...is the 60m pounds that rafa apparently wants for next season a "decent budget" or more towards the high end side of things?...also must try & spend more wisely...less duds pls...

as for the academy...that has always been the hope and wish...

Originally Posted by rahl

I In fact I would have looked forward to it more if we had a more decent budget to get new players. Some of the future stars are going to come out of the academy.

[omnia]

i think the crux of the complaint seems to be based on the total cumulative amt spent by rafa over the last 5/6 years which comes to well over 200m pounds...going by that figure one wld think that the reds sld by now be in a position to make and sustain a consistent real challenge for the EPL title...not necessarily win it but at least be in the running until the v end of the season wif a pts difference in the low single digits on a consistent basis...

yes one sld also look at the sales that rafa made during the same period to balance the books...but then one sld also question whether he sold wisely to make another purchase?...for instance sld he hv kept one of 3 - keane or bellamy or crouch on the books as a complementary/back up striker for torres?...

u pted out fergie & jose's duds & hv rtly said that every manager has had his share of duds...yes...however fergie & jose hv managed to establish relatively balanced successful EPL squads notwithstanding their duds...so has arsene who has done so on a smaller budget compared to rafa (for eg. i don't think arsene has ever spent more than 15m pounds on a single player)...this is something rafa has thus far failed to achieve in his 6 yrs at anfield...note i am making specific reference to the EPL and not CL...

as for thomo's anecdote on the reds being given first dibs for Cristiano...i don't think thomo was blaming houllier or anyone else at liverpool for letting Cristiano slip through their fingers...the pt i think he was trying to make apart fm providing a spicy bit of info in his biography was to highlight the difficulty in spotting young top talent and taking a chance/risk...because spending 8m pounds on a teenager (i think that was the asking px for Cristiano offered to the reds) at that time was quite a princely sum...

since we r on the topic of scouting for top potential young talent and the difficulties and risks involved in this field...i strongly recommend the book on the late Geoff Twentyman, liverpool's legendary chief scout who spotted the bulk of the reds best players during the golden yrs between the 60s-80s...it is called Secret Diary of a Liverpool Scout...it is apparent that liverpool need to find another Geoff Twentyman for the 21C...

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

Hi again,

would like to comment on RB's transfers also..

[omnia]

just going by recent press reports...it appears probable that rafa shall be moving on to either juve or madrid next season regardless of this season's outcome for the reds ...to me that is a win win for both the reds & rafa...

the hard part arises on the appt of a new manager...obviously because of the present turmoil surrounding the club's ownership and finances...ideally jose wld be my #1 choice, followed by either hiddink or capello or arsene...i am also quite drawn to pep guardiola, claude puel and louis van gaal...however until things stabilise at the club i dont forsee the top tier managers cming forward...possibly dalglish appted as an interim manager to tide things over...or o'neil/strachan/moyes/hodgson/curbishley on incentivised short term contracts??...

Originally Posted by bochapsing

but let us start tis discussion.... IF Rafa decided to leave (just as many people wish), who is available (have to be realistic lar) and who do u want to take over us?

Martin O'Neil? Jose Mourihno? Guus Hiddink? Fabio Capello?

[hawksbay]

Originally Posted by GeMiNiZzzzZzz

Selling SG for that price now will only go into the Yankee's bank..



Of course, this can only be done if the owners are changed, or RB moved to another club w/o any compensation.

MON is a good choice, humble yet aggressive tacticians.

Jose...if we get a rich owners 1st

MON r u kidding, as he ever got villa into the top 4,his teams always run out of ideas in the home straight.JOSE yes but wld he come to liverpool.

[hawksbay]

Originally Posted by shyboy252001

Morning bros!!

apparently, i think i probably have been labelled as RB's lackey too! hahaha

anyhow, to bro Omnia or other fans who think Jose will be better, are you guys sure?

on League performance:
both sign on 2004 for Chelsea and Liverpool respectively, but look at the squad inherited, and the amount of financial resources given..

JM had Terry, Gallas, Lampard, Cole, Makalele, Duff, Gudjohnsen and spent 90+ millions to buy Peter Cech, Robben, Drogba, R. Carvalho and others..

RB had Carra, Gerrard, Hamann, Baros, Riise (?), Kewell (??), Smicer (???), Dudek (????), Traore (??????) , Biscan (??????) and spent about 18 million on Alonso and Luis Garcia, (i refused to acknowledge that RB bought Cisse since the transfer was settled by GH before RB came on board)..

close fight? turn the table around and i dont know how far can Jose Mourinho can bring us, and of course, we will never know the answers.. we can only speculate..

On Champions League:
Mourinho won CL in 2004, look at his opponents to the Final.. (for ref: F.C. Porto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) besides Man Utd, who were worthy opponents?
compared that to Liverpool's opponents on the way to Final in 2005, we had Bayer Leverkusen, Juventus, Chelsea, and Milan.. So far, beside leading Porto to win in 2004, JM had yet to bring another team to Final, not with Chelsea (RB saw to that twice).. maybe this year he might.. unless Barcelona stopped him again.. while Liverpool went to final twice under RB..

and for those who think RB is a failure, look at the clubs courting him to take over, please.. Real Madrid and Juventus are not small team, why would they want to get someone who is lousy? Big Clubs want successful manager to lead the team..

hmm.. think i will surely be labelled as RB's lackey permanently after this liao.. hahaha

y u wori abt wat the so called pool fans say,i must say u noe abt ur football,some veri good n intresting posts.yes u r rite abt rafa he will always be sort after if he leaves pool but i hope he stays.

[GeMiNiZzzzZzz]

Originally Posted by hawksbay

MON r u kidding, as he ever got villa into the top 4,his teams always run out of ideas in the home straight. JOSE yes but wld he come to liverpool.

He has the smallest squad in the epl since he was in charge at villa park.and his budget fyi is like 20pcts of Rafa ? He did nt really get money to spend from Randy and look what he has done since moving frm celtic park ? Postion 7 7 6..nt good enuff ?

Like I say..Jose is definetely 1st choice, but can we provide him 100 - 200 mil for players spree ?


Being realistic here rather typing things out illogically.

[sex crusader]

I hope lucas will stay too...he will also be sought after considered his ability to run everywhere on the pitch.The referee association will surely be seriously looking into this. He could be a serious candidate for the upcoming world cup!

[chairman-mao]

Originally Posted by omnia

what i don't understand is why does rafa generally prefer to put aquilani on the bench and play lucas instead?...he pays 20m pounds for aquilani and does not seem to want to give aquilani a straight long consistent run in the team to properly settle in...

tis is something till now i am oso wondering.

Originally Posted by sex crusader

I guessed you have to ask the so called' expert'" and "true fans"" here for the answer. They seemed to be the sidekick of RB! They can"t even acknowledge the fact that Lucas is a big failure and still blindly support him.I presumed that if RB used a toilet cleaner to be CB and fail big time and they will still say RB is right!What a blind supporter!

lets see, can we have a ans on why Lucas is more prefer than Aquillani from them