Legal Lobang in Thailand

[fleaz]

ok lah enough about land n loan sian

what you guys think about investing in bird house?
bird house ar, not chicken house

[draven78eric]

Originally Posted by fleaz

ok lah enough about land n loan sian

what you guys think about investing in bird house?
bird house ar, not chicken house

Bird house as in ...?
Pets type of for Swallows...

[fleaz]

Originally Posted by draven78eric

Bird house as in ...?
Pets type of for Swallows...

house to collect bird nest
this is the 1st thing in thailand i want to do other than my default industry

[draven78eric]

Originally Posted by fleaz

house to collect bird nest

When i first come into Thailand, ever thought of that...but decided not to.
But really need to understand more in details how the swallows behave. Heard some people started and end up wind up too.. the swallows just dont want to enter into their building, even they add in the latest device to attract the birds.. but sure must near to sea side area or not im not too sure about this..

Now im looking into Pigs..I know its a very old trade, but im came across a way of pig penning and its odorless natural way of pig penning.
Had ask my Thai bro in law to look into this and will make a try out with a couple of piglets first.

[fleaz]

Originally Posted by draven78eric

When i first come into Thailand, ever thought of that...but decided not to.
But really need to understand more in details how the swallows behave. Heard some people started and end up wind up too.. the swallows just dont want to enter into their building, even they add in the latest device to attract the birds.. but sure must near to sea side area or not im not too sure about this...

yes only suitable for coastal town with many green around. need to get a good consultant but i feel largely depend a lot on luck. which is what make me think twice. have some invest a lot good setup in the end very little bird come. some just anyhow cheap cheap setup a lot of bird come. but good thing about bird house is (as for now) no need to apply permit or company, foreigner also can do. for now garmen dun really put much restrict on bird house harvest, except for processing and export. as long as no neighbor complaint. also its mainly 1 time cost, running cost only electricity. but if no bird come... siao liao loh. but me n my wife are until now are still very interested.

[Humlea]

For those people toying about the idea of using company to own lands, maybe a simple cost breakdown for better understanding what you getting into.

Without discussing the 49/51% etc and disregard whether it's a genuine business or just setup for owning land purposes, let's look at the minimum cost.

Let's only look at the monthly cost.

4 pax social security tax min 1,100 x 4,400 (fake or real workers)
Your tax at min 45k declared salary is about 2,200
Your real of fake office min 5,000
Accountant part time min 3,500
A year already 52,800 + 26,400 + 60,000 + 42,000 =181,200

Not including your Work Permit and Visa. Of course you want to be the director of the business to secure your land owning. So getting a agent to do it cost another 55,000 a year.

So even if your business is real, if you don't have 3-4 million baht turnover every year with net profit of 20% above, don't bother doing it, because workers salary will eat into your profit.

[Humlea]

Originally Posted by TomMAffolter

Good advice, practical and realistic info, not all dreams and hopes

That's the minimum bro, how about the business tax... there's a formula signboard x space x don't know what... Although tax is not the same for different province, I paid est. 110,000 a year... but I have a 1 rai workshop to maintain lah... if just a small office maybe only 10+k. How about insurances? So unless really doing business, open a fake business just to own lands is really a bad choice.

[shorttime]

Originally Posted by TomMAffolter

Just playing devils advocate here, not rubbish post.
Rental yield 5%, is this include management fees and repairs?
60% capital gain is yearly or over 6 yrs? Im guessing is over 6 yrs so avg 10%
Total gain is 15% (plus or minus 2-3% based on repairs and management fees, vacancy levels ect)

Im pretty sure you can get this return on a HDB in Singapore.
So issue is 10X2mill baht condos at 15% ROI vs 2x HDB apartments in Singapore where both give similar ROI and are of similar value.
Its much more simpler to colect rent from 2 tenants rather than 10. Definitely less repairs costs on 2 rather than 10. Economic future of Sg more stable than Thai (military coup, overvalued baht, covid affecting tourism, political dissatisfaction with gov, rising unemployment)

Then also as you mentioned Mutual fund Stock investments, speaking from my own personal experience I have been with a Fund that invests internationally and apart from this year and years with economic turmoil, I have been getting ROI of 15-20%, averaged over the 14yrs I have been with it has been 12%, this is after fees etc and involved zero effort on my part.
Im sure there are similar funds found in Sg with similar success rates.

Just an alternative idea, to what has been posted.

I think it depends a lot on the age we are at. As we grow closer to 60 or 70, You probably don't want to take more risk. You want something that is stable, and low risk.

HDB rental yield is excellent in Singapore, so it is a must to keep for rental income.

I will prefer to collect 6000 baht from 10 tenant vs 30000 baht from 2 tenant because there are not many who can afford a 30000 baht rental. The risk is lower when it is spread out.

A diversified passive income is the KEY, ie holding property, stocks, bond, unit trust, cash.

[Happyman007]

Originally Posted by shorttime

I think it depends a lot on the age we are at. As we grow closer to 60 or 70, You probably don't want to take more risk. You want something that is stable, and low risk.

HDB rental yield is excellent in Singapore, so it is a must to keep for rental income.

A diversified passive income is the KEY, ie holding property, stocks, bond, unit trust, cash.

If want more risk better just do business, earning 1000 times of profit from what I invested in Indonesia and still there now....

So for passive income and not much risk, I choose for easy managing like unit trust, stocks dividends and just few units of condo rental which handle by my wife and is for her pocket money actually......and our sg HDB still there and rented since 18 years ago, already consider a free unit paid by rental income......TQ PAPaya govt for the subsidise housing and let the Malaysian pay for the high cost of living in sg renting my HDB and giving me early CPF retirement fund monthly

Also btw, HDB is 99 years and condo in Chiangmai is freehold.......I can pass down to my children and grand children and great grand children.....great great grand children provided the condo still in good condition lah 555

[fleaz]

Originally Posted by Humlea

For those people toying about the idea of using company to own lands, maybe a simple cost breakdown for better understanding what you getting into.

opening fake company just for the purpose of buying land is a big nono except if you are washing money. many china does this with thai nominee and china money comes in via black market

but if you have a real company that i feel buying land and company is 2 separate matter. if your company make big profit n have extra capital to invest in land either with nominee or wife or company name. can keep for next generation or even keep for future company expansion build hub, warehouse, bigger shopfront etc etc. One have to be realistic to ownself if current company or personal status is in a position to buy land or not. if have the EXTRA money n come across a land worth buying, why not?

[fleaz]

Originally Posted by TomMAffolter

There is YouTube vid of vietnamese family have a birdhouse for swallows nest in the city, looks like very dirty work and with bird dropping and disease, i dont dare do that

yes its dirty job but most of the time will go collect the nest 1or2 time /house/month. and most people employ pama to collect, owner and partners just have to be around to prevent pama steal and verify final harvest weight

[Humlea]

Originally Posted by funboi

Any useful legal/illegal loopholes/tips you come across so far? That helps you to successfully xiam spending or save money or prevent wasting money for your trade.

as a business owner, do you receive help from the thai govt? get any grants or rebate offset?

do you employ external to audit your finance?

First of all, yes there are illegal loopholes to xiam certain expenses but not much as some are too risky. I also don't want to discuss it here. Mostly is by experience kena pay a lot to understand e.g like you rent a workshop mostly don't have transformer to step down the electricity and you will be thinking to install a 50KVA cost about 60k not a big deal then learn that you cannot install yourself but must use PEA contractor. The drawing from PEA approval plus a 2 hrs installation cost 160k. Tio scam loh. Another is when you rent your workspace mostly the owner will do contract clause that any tax has to be bare my tenant so even his rental tax 5% you also must pay for him. 100k per month already 5k. The contract has to be stamp by gov 0.5% of whole contract sum. Meaning 100k x 3 years 3.6 mil x 0.5% = 18,000 also you pay. Your company car tax and insurance is double the price and that's why you should buy the car in your wife name. The list goes on... All these problems are setup business from scratch will meet.

Total no help from gov only pay more. As foreigner involve in business, tax bracket is higher, A lot of sides way business practice cannot be done because it's a foreigner involved. The only help I received is this year covid workers social security tax discount 50%. No use one lah... worker contribution also less 50% mah... so to gov is left right pocket.. have help like no help.

For accounting you have to be careful. Always sub your accounts out to 3rd third if you don't have 100 million above turnover. Thailand have a registered approved accountant system. Meaning you cannot engage a non certify accountant cheap cheap year end your audit will not pass and in the end must undertable a lot of money. Thailand only have about 4900 certify accountant taking care of millions of business. Meaning to hired an accountant full time for your company only will cost 100k above salary excluding the yearly audit. So always engage accounting firm to take care of that, price at 3,500 - 6,000. Year end audit they also take care because they have people inside revenue dept and cost about 17-22k guarantee pass.

So you see, the list is endless and if I can turn back time and re-setup I can save 2 million baht of mistakes. Hell no... I won't even do it again.

[fleaz]

Originally Posted by Humlea

So you see, the list is endless and if I can turn back time and re-setup I can save 2 million baht of mistakes. Hell no... I won't even do it again.

do you blame your wife for this situation?
when ever me n wife fight mostly is about work
she will say its all her fault we move back to thai 555

[Humlea]

Originally Posted by fleaz

do you blame your wife for this situation?
when ever me n wife fight mostly is about work
she will say its all her fault we move back to thai 555

Don't bro... I've been down that road till the point of nearly divorce. My wife graduate from F&B no work experience straight out of university and we build the business together. The first 2 years our marriage suffered disastrously. I met problem after problem and my world logics didn't work here. I have the experience and know what it takes to setup a business but my skill and knowledge is useless here. Fuck, even my management skill is not working here. Letting out my frustration is to pin it on my wife which is really my mistake. After 2 years I started to speak some thai and dealing somethings myself I started to understand that it's not my wife's fault. Our way of doing business is not compatible with these animals. My wife already followed my instructions to the dot but as long it consist of another party it will not happen as we planned. As I said, Khun Thai Ki Yi Cha... they rather don't let you get what you want even if it's a win win situation.

But today my wife is very different compared 6 years ago. The sao sao has matured become Je liao. Example, few years ago I wanted to rent a factory but the price is 250k/m... space is too big 4.5 rai so end up not renting. Last week I saw that other people had rented it but their operation doesn't take up so much space so I ask my wife to call them if they would like to rent 1 rai to us for storage. The owner told my wife can... 200k p/m... my wife answer is, "stack 2 pillows"... owner: what? Wife: Pai Fan!(dream). I shocked... wife put down the phone angry and say... Why khun thai so greedy? The more they stay with us the more they also hate their countrymen.

[draven78eric]

Originally Posted by fleaz

yes only suitable for coastal town with many green around. need to get a good consultant but i feel largely depend a lot on luck. which is what make me think twice. have some invest a lot good setup in the end very little bird come. some just anyhow cheap cheap setup a lot of bird come. but good thing about bird house is (as for now) no need to apply permit or company, foreigner also can do. for now garmen dun really put much restrict on bird house harvest, except for processing and export. as long as no neighbor complaint. also its mainly 1 time cost, running cost only electricity. but if no bird come... siao liao loh. but me n my wife are until now are still very interested.

then give it a shot bro. do what you interested in and wish you best of luck in harvesting the nest. Electricity, use solar panels..then no monthly cost already since all is 1 time invest. the rest will be on the payment to workers to harvest the nest..